Let me start by saying I don't support this and am just brainstorming. Also let me start by saying I don't support running and I don't want this thread to get heated. I just want to hear thoughts and opinions on this.

My question:

Why cant someone use a boat to run?

Whats the difference in what you drive from 1 spot to another if your running?

Like the way running is currently done all fishing would be out of the kickboat or tube.

What's the difference?

This question is for bnt and scbbbc guys thoughts as well as any other tube anglers out there. This question isn't about running vs. not running its about boat vs. truck running.

Well first off I don’t think everyone has a boat at there disposal, from what I see more people do have vehicles. Now if were able to find a way that everyone could have a boat at there disposal and it was there choice if they wanted to use a vehicle instead I don’t see a problem.

FIT

Not 100% of the guys fishing have cars or even Drivers license's, so isnt that already unfair to them and doesnt that make the playing field unfair?

Thats a good ? John. Im with FIT. Your write on the $ about the guys without a car or drivers licence. That is there choice coming into this thing call float tube tourneys. Its kind of like the disadvantage I have with the round to compaired to a kick boat. Theres some good and some bad. I wish we could use a boat for all of us, but the chance of that happening isn't good. If I couldn't run at all on the Delta or Clear Lake then I would say that I would buy a kick boat to try and even out my odds some, I guess. Once again John that is a good ?

Rich

No I don’t think it is unfair because people do have to get to the tourney in some fashion and from what I see most arrive in vehicles not boats. Now if they are getting rides from friends/family they would have to get set up with them to run and if there ride does not want to run then that person is putting them at the unfair advantage.

? 1. why cant someone use a boat to run?
Because not everyone has access to a boat,therefore we wouldn1t be on an even playing field.
? 2.Whats the difference in what you drive from 1 spot to another if your running?
Same answer as ? 1.
I think running makes it more like a boat tourney without the boat.Boats arent stuck in one section of the lake,why should we.Discovering new spots is also part of the challenge.Of course this only applies to larger lakes and bodies of water.I like the idea of it being as close to a boat tourney as possible as far as rules and areas to fish,with it still being on an even playing field. my 2 cents.Bill

I'm not for running, but on their side:

Why should they have to stay in the same area just because someone else can't afford a truck (or car) to run with?

That's like saying the guys that have a 300 Merc can't use it, cause they'll have longer to fish since it took them less time to get there then someone with a little 50.

That kinda falls under the oar thing too. I don't think the guys with oars should be penalized because not everyone can afford a kickboat.

But, I think what it really boils down to is, 'Is running legal'? If not, put a stop to it.

Look at the stats. Are most of the peolple at the top of the standings runners? Is Mitch a runner? Cuz he kicked boody this season. Then again there's gonna be times when the areas that are reasonably accessable to the non-runners just aren't gonna hold biting fish. The non-runners are either gonna be O.K. with it or they're gonna quit fishing with the club. Boat or truck, you're still running. The boat is actually a way better running impliment. This way you don't have to deal with traffic AND you're not doing anything illegal as far as transporting your fish. You can also get back to the boat and relocate a lot quicker than with the vehicle. I myself think that running makes the whole thing way too complicated. I just want to stick my boat in the water and fish.

Maybe I have a different perspective on running...

I'm no big pro fisherman, but I do put some value on my reputation. I have my website and some sponsors and whatnot. If I go to a tournament and run, and get caught by DFG and cited, that goes on public record. If you think people won't look you up on public record to see if you've been cited by DFG, think again. There's plenty of guys with nothing better to do than things like this. Therefore, I will never run in a tournament in a vehicle. And why should I fish a tourney on a big body of water where other guys can run but I can't due to my own principles? You guys aspiring to be pro's and fish the big boat tourneys should consider this before you hop in the truck to drive somewhere.

John's thing about using a boat to run is lame (sorry John) because that's not what these tournaments are about IMO. My favorite kind of tournament is the one where everyone fishes the same water as far as they can row or paddle. I love fishing a place like Pinto for this reason, because no one has an advantage. If you let me bring my boat and drag my kickboat around with me to fish out of, I'll happily take your money in any sight fishing tournament next year. It would be legal, but unfair to the other guys in the club. Lame if you ask me

As far as having a tube vs. a kickboat, that's a valid point. But I think that's unavoidable if you want to maintain a good sized club. Even the boat circuits allow small boats to fish team tournaments. 10hp and a functional livewell will get you in to a lot of team tourneys. If you're on the low end of boat equipment and you put your money down, that's just a choice you make.

Bottom line for me is that B-n-T ending the runners rule will mean I'm at more tourneys next year. And if SCBBBC wants to keep the rule, I don't think I'll be at the Invitational any time soon. Nothing personal, just a calculated decision on my part.

-Rob

Just out of curiousity Rob,did you used to run before this years paranoia.What exactly is it about running that bothers you?Is it because it was written about this year and could be technically against the law or is it because you think it harms the fish?I dont see how your reputation could be at stake,most people out there know what we`re all about and support our clubs they know we take care of our fish this goes group includes tournament fisherman(pro`s and ams), spectators and park officials that watch our weigh-ins on occasions.People that run are no less of a sportsman than people that dont,I`m sure all you peers know that.Its called tournament fishing.There`s a few grey area laws out there that need to be cleared up thats for sure,another being the 5 fish culling thing that comes to mind right off the bat,but I dont think we should change the way we fish the tourneys.Its hard to say anymore untill I know why it is you dont agree with it,and if you just stopped running this year or you`ve always felt this way.Bill

Yes I did. I didn't think real hard about it and did it because I felt the need to compete. The only place I ever ran at was Clear Lake.

Transporting live fish over water is not illegal but over land is.
Just don't like the idea of people using a power vehicle to
help in their fishing of a non-power tube tournament.

IMHO running is wrong.

THIS IS MY FIRST YEAR WITH THE SCBBBC.AS FAR AS THE
RUNNING ISSUE I DO NOT SEE THE PROBLEM WITH RUNNING. I MEAN IT IS THE SAME THING AS PUTTING YOUR FISH IN A LIVE WELL ON A BOAT AS IT IS IN YOUR TRUCK OR CAR.AND AS FAR AS IT BEING A DISAVANTAGE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO DONT RUN OR DO NOT HAVE THE TRANSPORATION TO RUN.THIS IS THERE DECISION NOT TO RUN.AND FOR THE PEOPLE WHO DONT HAVE WHEELS TO RUN THIS IS NOT THE PEOPLES WHO HAVE WHEELS TO RUNS FAULT OR PROBLEM.AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF GUYS IN OUR CLUB THAT HAVE GIVEN RIDES TO THE PEOPLE WHO DONT HAVE WHEELS TO TOURNYS AND FOR RUNNIG PURPOSES I DID THAT AT THE INVITATIONAL FOR A YOUNGER ANGLER WHO DOESNT HAVE WHEELS.
AND ON A NOTHER NOTE AS FAR AS THE COMPETIVE ASPECT OF THIS.YEAH IT MAY BE A DISADVANTAGE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO DONT HAVE WHEELS BUT LOOK AT THE PROS DO THEY CONSIDER ANOTHER PERSON BEING AT A ADVANTAGE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A LARGER FASTER ENGINE THAN THE OTHER GUY SO THEY CAN GET TO THERE SPOTS QUICKER.THATS THERE DECISION IF THE MOTOR SIZE IS LARGER AND FASTER.SAME THING WITH OARS I THINK WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO USE OARS ON ANY BODY OF WATER NO MATTER THE SIZE OF THE WATER.
THERE ARE DIFFERNET STYLES OF OARS IVE SEEN PEOPLE IN SWIMING POOL AIR
MATRESSES WITH LITTLE HAND OARS THAT LOOKED LIKE THEY WORKED VERY WELL THE GUY WAS KEEPING UP WITH ME!!!!! CALL ME SLOW OR NOT BUT HE COULD DEFINETLY SKOOT ALONG.ADVANTAGES AND DISADVATAGES THERE ARE SO MANY WAYS THIS CAN BE TAKEN. IM MEAN LOOK AT IT LIKE THIS ONE GUY HAS MONEY TO BUY THE BEST BAITS THAT CATCH FISH ON GUY DOESNT. WHATS NEXT ARE WE ALL GOING TO HAVE TO USE THE SAME BAITS TO SO ONE GUY DOESNT HAVE THE ADVANTAGE OF A GREAT BAIT THAT CATCHES FISH.SURE THERE ARE GOING TO BE ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES THIS IS A PART OF ANY SPORT.
IVE ONLY BEEN BASS FISHEN FOR A LITTLE BIT OVER A YEAR THERE ARE GUYS IN THESE CLUBS THAT HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 20 YEARS- ARE GOING PRO-JUST STARTED FISHEN A WEEK AGO ARE THESE ADVANTAGES AND DISADVATRAGES SURE THEY ARE...WE ALL DO THIS BECAUSE WE LOVE THE SPORT OF BASS FISHING AT LEAST I DO. I CONSIDER MYSELF AT A DISADVATAGE BECAUSE IVE ONLY BEEN BASS FISHING FOR A YEAR OR SO I DONT KNOW THESE WATERS LIKE SOME OF THESE OTHER GUYS BUT ILL TELL YOU WHAT IT MAKES ME FISH HARDER AND MORE OFTEN SO THAT I CAN LEARN THESE WATERS AND IM NOT COMPLAINING.I JUST LOVE TO FISH!!!!!!!
FISH ON!!!!!!!!!!
MATT CAHILL:) }( :9 ;( x( :P

thank for your post Matt, keep in mind the question is boat vs. truck running not running vs. not running and its directed at all tubers/ kickboaters out there not just bnt or scbbbc thanks

Im loving reading these responces. This is a good topic. Can some of us spend some time triing to make it legal to transport fish for these tourneys only? Make it totally manditory that there live wells are all the same with super duper pumps and rejuvinade etc..
Man I would love to use a boat also. That would be great!! I could hit some great waters. Any way, I just love fishing and tourneys. I wish we all could respect each others opinions and try and make this running with boats or trucks work. Im ready. Thanks John for opening our eyes to this situation. The out come is going to be great.

Rich

My point exactly..get it out in the open. We wont be able to plead out case until mid-late summer next year and the law wont be able to be changed until 2006 but we will do everything to make it happen. We will also be discussing the DFG and state leg. more in details at a later time.

Now Rich is a thinking man :) If DFG changed the rules to allow fish to be transported by land between spots on the SAME lake, then you have problem solved. I would run if it were legal, and we could stop having these long conversations on here lol.

So, you ask, how do you get reg changes with DFG?

The DFG Commission considers reg changes on a 2 year basis. I believe the next cycle comes up in 2005. If you want a change in regulation, you have to submit it, in writing, to the DFG Commission. It's best if you follow the wording of the current regulations and just change it to what you want it to be. So if you go to the section on transporting live gamefish and change the wording to say what you want it to say and send that in to the commission, then you'll at least get considered.

To really get things passed, it helps to have a DFG biologist or enforcement person (or three) on your side to help push things through. DFG will implement regulation changes in "emergency" type situations when their personnel see fisheries being threatened etc. This issue won't fall in that category, but having DFG on your side would be really helpful. It also helps to go to the commission meeting where your issue is dicussed and bring lots of people with you to make public comment during the allotted time.

Right now I am slowly working on getting reg changes in at San Pablo dam to try to protect what is left of the trophy bass fishery there. It may be too late by the time anything happens, or nothing may happen at all, but hey there is a saying, "nothing changes if nothing changes". So I'm trying. If you guys feel strongly about the runners rule, then try to get it changed. The worst they could say is no.

Here is the law that affects running it is in the California code of regulations, title 14(Natural Resources) section 1.63.

§1.63. Movement of Live Fish.
Except as provided in sections 4.30 and 230, live fin fish taken under the authority of a sport fishing license may not be transported alive from the water where taken.

the exceptions in sections 4.30 does not apply as it only pertains to baitfish. Section 230 refers to the permit process needed for contests(tournaments). Now here is the interesting part, see (2) below. It appears that the DFG does have the power to establish permit conditions governing the movement of live fish associated with tournament activities.

copied from section 230
(d) Compliance with Sport Fishing Regulations.
(1) No provisions of these regulations exempt any participant in a contest from the sport fishing regulations, except that the department, as part of Event Permit conditions, may authorize an exemption to new regulations which impose an increased minimum size limit larger than 12 inches, a slot size limit, or a reduced bag limit less than five fish.
(2) To prevent the movement of live fish from one body of water to another, the department also may establish permit conditions governing the movement of live fish associated with tournament activities.

I think this is the area where we will need to concentrate our efforts. I am still researching this and keep in mind this may not be holy grail we seek since everything I have read so far makes the permits more stringent than the existing regs. not less.

HEY JOHN YES I DO KNOW THIS AFTER READING FARTHER INTO THIS.I DONT QUITE GET THE BOAT RUNNING THING WE ARE FLOAT TUBE CLUBS.IF WERE THINKING OF OR MAKING THE SUGGESTION OF USING BOATS TO RUN WE MIGHT AS WELL ALL BUY BOATS AND FISH THE BOAT TOURNYS.HOW WOULD THIS WORK WITH A BOAT DOING THE RUNNING.IM A BIT CONFUSED ON THIS. DOES THIS MEAN WE WE BUY BOATS AND DRAG THE FLOAT TUBES TO OUR SPOTS THEN GET IN THE FLOAT TUBE AND FISH.IF THAT IS THE IDEA HOW WOULD WE KNOW OR EVEN KEEP IT HONEST THAT A GUY ISNT JUST FISHING OUT OF THE BOAT??OR DOES IT MEAN WE PUT A BOAT OR BOATS IN THE WATER TO FOLLOW THE FLOAT TUBERS AROUND FOR THERE CATCH AND PUT THEM IN THE BOATS LIVE WELL TO TRANSPORT BACK TO WEIGH IN?????
FISH ON!!!!!!!

This question means put your tube in the boat drive to your spot tie up the boat and get in the tube and fish. Same thing as running in a truck only your in a boat.

A lot of good points have been made. I have always had mixed feelings on running. If you have around a dozen tubers or so I don't really like the idea of running. If you have 50+ people it almost becomes a necessary evil. As well as we all get along I feel it would tend to get ugly with 50 guys all trying to get to 2 or 3 good spots at the same time. Some would try rowing across the lake to escape the crowds. Could be very dangerous at many lakes especially Clear Lake. What if the weather turns ugly and you can’t get back. I would love to hear some suggestions on how we could overcome this.

I think that people already push the limits as far as kicking or rowing over open water regardless of the running rule. M & M campground to Rattlesnake Island for example. State park to the point south of it (I cut across instead of following the shoreline). Or across the main lake at Nacimiento.

With regards to the original questions: My primary objection to running has beenthe legal issue of transporting live fish. Running in a boat eliminates that objection. I still don't like it for other reasons but would not object if it were legal.

Someone brought up the point that running makes our tournaments more like a boat tournament. Why is it desirable to be like boat tournaments? Is it because some or many feel that a float tube or kick boat is a step on the way to fishing boat tournaments or becoming a pro?

Buzzfish

this post brings up some good points. Do we desire to be more like boat tournaments? I would say yes and no. Yes we would like it to be as big as "big" boat events. With major sponsor and TV coverage, but no we dont need running to make this happen.

To answer your other question, float tube and kickboat events "are" a step in the right direction to becoming pro, if thats the anglers goal.

hey you changed your question lol.

The three times I have ever ran, I didn't like doing it and didn't feel right about. After more thought, I've decided I don't want to do it or be a part of it. Doesn't matter what the intent of the law is, it matters what the letter of the law is. People can tell me the law is not enforced ... so what. The law is the law and I am not going to knowingly break the law. If other people want to break the law, that's their business not mine.

Running with a boat is a good idea, if...

The boat is a ski boat and you have to stay in your tube while you get pulled around the lake @ 40 mph to your next location. :o

But seriously folks, the law is what the law is. I ran the first day at the BnT Clear Lake Open this year (just when everything was coming down) and I felt like a criminal, looking over my shoulder for rangers or in my rear-view mirror for police. In fact, I didn't run the next day even though my chances for placing higher in the tourney would have been better. So I'm glad John took a stand so that nobody in BnT tourneys has an unfair advantage. It's a lot more relaxing to launch & weigh-in at one place; no lost time due to driving, packing/unpacking, easier on the fish, etc. And it boils down to who figures out the fish in that area, not who finds a secret honey-hole on the other side of the lake. I've fished boater tourneys where the winner never used the big motor, they just trolled within sight of the marina. It's what you do with what you've got.

I'm climbing down off the soapbox now...

A criminal!C`mon dude.It`s not even enforced because its so ridiculous.Who has gotten cited?Paranoia!Its not enforced people.I would be more worried about getting a jay-walking ticket,seriously.BTW where did you fish this weekend John,lol.Where did over half of b-nt fish?I tell you what not at state park.Why is that?Because everyone knows its not inforced and its b.s.And finding a secret honey hole is part of figuring out the fish and part of the game of tournament fishing.:7

Like I said in my orgianl post " this is not about running vs. not running this is about boat vs. truck running"

and yes Bill you knew I ran, but what you didnt know before bnt aloud ppl to run I was the #1 person against running, then when we had it and ppl wanted it to go. I got use to it and liked it and fought to keep it.

this isnt abut running vs. not running

Boat vs. truck running would be a moot point wouldn't it? Excuse my naivity, but as a tuber/kickboater why would there be a need for running with a boat? I quess I need clarification of the question.
Is this about running with either a boat or truck in a SCBBBC or BNT tourney? My feeling is that those who want to run will and those who don't won't. And in regards to the fairness of it all, life's not fair, so we should all get used to it. It's not fair to pit oars of a kickboat pitted against those of tubers as Rich pointed out. I know that I'm fast in my tube but I can't outkick a kickboat to my spot if it really came down to it but, I have accepted it and game planned accordingly.

I wouldnt say the question is a moot point and I also never said it was directed towards BNT or SCBBBC. it is just a question. Kinda like, if he can use his truck why cant i use my boat, thats all. I just through this out for discussion and wanted dome thoughts and feedback on what everyone had to say. Thanks for the reply

I know that was not your intent(running vs non-running)for this discussion but it was on the edge and he we are again.Obviously we all have our own opinions,it`s just all been blown out of perportion starting at the beginning of this year.My point being everybody was running at the beginning of the year and all the years before that,now since the article peoples view points have somehow changed.This is what I was trying to get at.The rule or law be it as it may has always been there,we all have known about it, why the sudden change of heart?If anybody ever was going to get cited it would have been at the open when it was the hot topic and dfg new we were having a tourney.When I fish b-n-t tournies I respect the no running rule and look at it as a challenge(even though I got my butt kicked in these areas,lol)I would just appreciate the same for scccbc.There`s really no need to bring up principles and reputation or to even say you wont fish one of scccbc`s tournies because of it,thats something you kinda keep to yourself if you dont want to stir things up.I`m not try to start shiat myself,just trying to understand why the strong feelings against it by a few of you all of a sudden(since may).Anyway I`m done on this subject,I shall bite my lip again from here on out on it I hope,lol.John if I pissed ya off that wasn`t my intention I guess I got a bit off base.Bill

Bill,

I've objected to running since it was first brought up in our club years ago not since May. In fact three or four meetings ago John specifically asked me not to bring it up for discussion. My objections were based on the legality of tansporting live fish. Have I run? Yes. Often? No. Why did I when I knew it was illegal? I was getting my butt kicked at Clear Lake by people who were running. Not that running helped THAT situation. I'm no angel but I do try not to break laws.

Do I care if SCBBC allows running? Nope, it's your club. Do I like it? Nope, for a lot of reasons. Discussing these objections is outside the scope of the topic John posted. Will the fact that SCBBC allows running affect my decision to fish or not fish one of your tournaments? It is something that I consider but it hasn't been a deciding point and I doubt it will.

So about the law: Why is it illegal to transport live fish? I understand that this is to prevent the spread of species that are not native to a body of water. It is also to stop the spread of parasites and disease. There has already been at least one incident where an angler weighed in fish caught at one lake and released at the lake where the tournament was held. When someone shows up at weigh in with a limit of fish in their livewell, how do you know where they came from?

Running over land opens up the possiblity that someone will move fish from one body of water to another; running in a boat eliminates this possibility.

More than my $0.02 worth.

Buzzfish

your post didnt bother me one bit, just trying to keep the thread "on topic"

<Why cant someone use a boat to run?>
Rule 5 says...
5. All vessels must be man-powered (no motors).
That pretty much rules out a boat for running, unless it's a row boat :P

"Man-powered" is the entire point of one of these tournaments. That's what float tubing and kick boating are all about.
It's about the competetion between men(and women) and the fish. Using the tools you have, within the rules. Man-powered!

<Whats the difference in what you drive from 1 spot to another if your running?>
I think a boat, if allowed, would provide an unfair advantage over those who don't have one at their disposal. Big difference!

<Like the way running is currently done all fishing would be out of the kickboat or tube. What's the difference?>
The difference would be the time it takes to get to a location. For example, at Clear lake you launch at state park and want to run to Quercus point. Boat time, less than 5 minutes. Rowing a kickboat from state park, 45 minutes to an hour. Driving to county park launching kickboat and rowing, 40 to 50 minutes. These times are just educated guesses but you can see the advantage running in a boat would have.

my .02
MT

I think running in a boat would be cool if everyone had one at their disposal.Like if we copuld get a couple of release boats and have everyone get un on it.The reason I don't run( I've only done it once)is the fish.I don't want to jepordize the fish I catch.I have seen touneys where the people who ran had dead fish.My 1st concern is for the welfare of the fish and yes they would have a better chance if done in a boat.I also don't want want to get cited by the dfg.If we all had access to a boat then we wouldn't be float tube/kickboat clubs.i have no desire to fish a bunch of boat tourneys and I do the float tube tourneys because it is a great way to learn from some realy good sticks who fish in a relaxed atmoshere.And it's fun as hell!
If the rules or laws say you can't do it then that is fine with me.I think John has done the no running thing for bnt is because it is against the law and if hassled by the dfg could do alot of damage to our clubs and also to a persons reputation if they are persuing a career as a pro.John is and has been doing alot to get our kind of clubs and touneys some ligitamcy and to make our sport grow.I will continue my support to give John my support.We need to remember that we have to do everything we can to ensure the survuval of our catch.
Swampy

I believe thats a BNT rule and like i said this isnt a BNT or SCBBBC thing, its just a general question. The rest of your points are takin, thanks for your reply

LMFAO

I've yet to fish a BnT event, but from an outsider looking in, it seems as if you are a victim of your own success. In my opinion, running is wrong. It defeats the pourpose of the club. However, it looks like there are so many members now that you can't have that many boats concentrated in one area. Maybe you should consider a multiple launch for the bigger 2-day tournaments? Half launches at one ramp and the other half launches at another ramp. The next day you switch the groups to keep it fair? I think that you are going to have to employ some new proceedures to keep the tournaments fun and fair without running. Just my 2 cents.

Wow,I like that idea mr.dropshot.The only problem would be the weigh-in.You would need two scales or adjust the times accordingly for blast-off and weigh-in for the 2 groups,maybe have one start an hour earlier.something to ponder

Why would you bother to get out of the boat and fish in your tube? At least running with the truck will eat your brain about how much time you need, traffic, rangers, how many such and so have ect, so that you wont fish well anyway. The boat running is a neat idea and I dont suppose it is a bad one, but it just does not seem to be an action the club could take to initiate growth.
tim

Like i have explained this isnt directed at any club. Just thoughts on boat vs. truck running.

I think this is a good idea also. Something along these lines was discussed in May. Bill brings up a good point about the scales but if SCBBC were willing to loan one for the bigger BNT tourneys like the opens it could work.

Buzz

and it was discussed in May and will be discussed again this year. BNT has the DR and TR scale's so thats not an issue. We will discuss this prior to the 2005 Open's.

new proceedures will need to be put in place with out a doubt for the bigger events in 2005. I like the idea of mult. launch/ weigh sites and will start a new thread on that sometime soon. Switching groups is a good idea as well. This is off topic but very good points, thanks.

Boat VS Truck Running Legality: The boat is legal, the truck is not. Period, end of story.
Boat Running VS Not Running Morality: If we could all have access to boats, then fine. Unfortunately that isn't going to happen. Is it morally wrong to allow those who can run in a boat to do so while others can't? I'd say no it's not morally wrong. At the same time, I'd rather see it just be a man powered tourney. This give everyone an even playing feild and allows me to look around and see what the other guy is doing.
I tried running once on the 1st day of my 1st B-n-T Open. I thought our permits for the tournament allowed it. Had I known, I wouldn't have. In that tourney, I only put in for Big Fish because I was out of work and couldn't afford to put in for the whole thing. I didn't catch any over 3# and released all of my fish. Had I caught a Hog, I would have un-knowingly broken the law.
Since then I have 1/2 Run (drive to a different spot and work my way back to the weigh in), once at the B-n-T Beacon Harbor tourney. I like this because it allows me to cover more water and it's legal since it doesn't transport the fish over land. It still requires a contestant to stay within oaring distance of the tourney's weigh in and that means everyone is still working the same basic area, just slightly broadened. Also, if anyone needs a ride to do this, there are enough people willing to give a lift that it makes the vehicle/drivers license issue a moot point.
Tight lines,
Wade

You say its morally wrong to allow people with boats to use them for running. Then isnt it morally wrong for someone to use oars since some people dont have them? Isnt it morally wrong for someone that only has a 75hp motor on there boat to fish against someone with a 225hp motor?

John,
I said No it's Not morally wrong. I'm just not to keen on it.

Tight lines,
Wade

oh sorry man, alot of reading in here for me today :)

It's all good! You've been a busy boy in here. Thanks for bringing these topics up. These are some of the topics that need to be ironed out before the clubs can grow too much bigger.
Tight lines,
Wade

Matt Cahill just solved the problem. We get a boat or two to come to one of our big tourneys where we travel and they transport our fish to the scales in there boats live wells and then we are totally legal. Can a person put someone elses limit into a holding tank near the weigh-in area and when Joe Blow pulls in he simply goes to the holding tank / icechest with his name on it and grab is fish and weigh-in and win.:7
Matt, dude you are the man.

Rich

This was the partial plan 2 years ago at the Open, problem was nearly no one was where they said they were going to be. What if you told me you would be at spot X, you get there fish it for a couple hours and the fish just arent working, so you need to take off to another spot. If you remember the year before last at state park when i took down everyones info as to where they were going, that was part of the reason for me knowing where.

In my opinion I think it should be ok. your bring you tube/kick in a truck or car. you dont bring it in a boat. i think tubes and boats should be kept seperate. if every one had a boat it would be different.
I dont think it matters on fairness, becasue just as many people have won from launching at the meeting point, as people that have driven off. and its every ones choice. just liek you could kick half a mile to your secret slough or rock pile only to find someone there, its all risk you take in fishing. and this does break a law, but only one person in our club over the past 15+ years have been busted, which was also thrown out of court. I think it should be alowwed, and keep it as if you choose to take the risk then you do, if you dont you dont. also how many years did both of our clubs go by without the right permits? but no one complained then cuz we were fishing. its the way it always has been. but not everyone agrees on everything its just the way it goes. you cannot make everyone happy, but, if you do have a blast off of 50+ people form one spot, i guarantee somethign else will coem up nd people will argue about people getting to close or fishign theyre area. but I think trying to chnage the law is a good idea. my typing skills suck, and im not even gonan try and re read and fix, do deal with it guys
:D


edit: to clean Kevins foul mouth :)

One thing I like about the club(s) are that they are "low-impact" fishing -- no pollution, no noise (except Lakes 'rap-blaster' radio ;) lol, no wakes, etc. Running -either by boat or truck - adds back the elements of noise & pollution. You can pooh-pooh this as a purist' dream, but you have to start somewhere. I have a bass boat (Stratos 285 w/175HP) which I haven't used in a few years (engine needs rebuilding). I was actually getting to the point where I didn't want to take it out because it was such a waste of resources (tow vehicle gas/oil, boat gas/oil, insurance, maintenance & repairs, launch fees, etc.) just to catch a few green fish & then throw them back in the lake. I find that through the club events, I am just as successful (if not more so) with a lot less strain on resources, both natural and $.

Regarding running with a boat -- if you have a boat, fish in a boat tourney. But I can see your point when you say "If you can run in your truck, I should be able to run in my boat."

May I chime in?

I know you said this isn't a question about running vs. no running, but that is what is bringing up these other scenarios. The "if he can do this, why can't I do that" questions will go on forever if there are no limitations. Check out this question for example. If they can run in there boat, why can't I run with the trolling motor on my kickboat so as long as it's not on while i'm fishing. That would be as fair to me as a guy taking off in a high powered bass boat.

So now you'd have some guys fishing from tubes, others in kickboats (some of which would have motors), a few guys taking off in there trucks and the rest blasting across the lake from one spot to the next. That's not a tournament pitting one anglers skill against another. That's a mess. How in the hell would you even regulate that.

I like Rich's idea of getting the rule changed and I also really like Wades idea about running only far enough to be able to fish back to weigh in. I think that'd be much easier on the fish than trucking them back to weigh in.

Anyway, I don't want to get too involved. I mostly fish from a boat now, but have fished a few BnT tourneys and had alot of fun doing it. When the Central coast region gets started, i'll probably fish some of the tourneys and would never use my boat to run. I would feel like a huge jerk bringing back a big limit from the backside of the lake while most of the competition was stuck near the marina. Whata winner i'd be :o

I just got back from the Shasta BASS Open and man, couldn't believe this thread!

Anyway, something I would like to mention, which is not entirely based on the original question (sorry John!).

I like how many people are talking about the law. Now my question is (don't take this the wrong way...anybody! :-) )...

Have you ever knowingly broken the law? i.e. speeding, using illegal substances, jay walking, being loud in a quiet zone?

What makes this any different? :P

Now, for those who mentioned taking kickboat/floattubing somewhere, I have to ask the question, who started the affiliation with BASS? :+

Sorry to get off the subject but this is a great thread! Thanks John for not making it a you vs. me argument! :7

Let me make it known I respect all of your thoughts, arguments, and ideas. Let's also remember we have to work together to be able to make our sport bigger and better. If we have division, like I know some of you have, we will never be able to take this sport to the next level.

In the upcoming months you will see some things WE (SCBBBC & BNT) will be doing. I'm including everyone in this and will give everyone (whether you like me or hate me ;-) ) a chance to participate. Does anyone want to be on ESPN??? :9

Todd

Hi Samuari,

This is a good point. I think I posted earlier that I am not 100% legal all the time but this thread is so long I couldn't find it. Sure I speed. I break other laws as well when I consume certain items. Those are individual choices that I make and have to live with. I think it is quite different when a club or other organization INTENTIONALLY advocates breaking the law on a regular basis.

I also posted about the intent of the law - to stop the spread of fish species and parasites. There is at least one case where fish from another lake were brought to the scales, weighed in, and from what I understand released at the tournament lake instead of the lake where they were caught.

Buzzfish

It`s getting harder to bite the lip!

Sorry Todd ;(
You didn't even come close in answering John's question.

Why cant someone use a boat to run?

Whats the difference in what you drive from 1 spot to another if your running?

Like the way running is currently done all fishing would be out of the kickboat or tube.

What's the difference?

Want to try again? :P

It would be OK with me if someone used a boat to run. However, the SCBBBC would have to change its rules that state that you can't have any help on the water to move around aside from your own fins & oars.

Just thought I'd throw this in! During the Invitational last week a couple nice guys fishing a boat tournament came up on this dock I'm fishing and we start talking, they started looking at my boat and said man you guys have everything on those boats these days and asked were our weigh-in was. I told him state park and the guy in the back of the boat goes "how are you going to get your fish back to weigh-in? you know its illegal to transport fish" I'm Like doh! mumble! mumble, Then I'm like "what, the bassmasters transported theirs to Walmart" and he says yeah but they had a permit from fish and game and I'm like o' that must be what that little card they gave us at check in is for and he says cool, good luck and off they went! Anyway that was kind of something I don't like to do "Lie" anyway I don't believe in this law so I will keep running as long as the club let's us. I put this law in the same category as the helmet law when I'm archery hunting from my kodiak 4x4 at 7000ft going 2 miles an hour on a dirt road. I wont wear it! give me a dam ticket!

Lets take Lake Sonoma as an example. There are 3 places to put in with a kickboat (that I know of). You could run to basically two spots. Running with a boat you could fish the whole lake. Defiantly not an even playing field. Clear lake has many spots that you could not get to even if running with a car and then rowing unless you rowed all day. Once again with a boat you could be there in no time. It simply would not be a fair to the guys without boats.

Lots of people are saying that running with a boat is not fair, because not everyone has a boat. But, not everyone has oars. So once you run somewhere in a vehicle, you can still fish areas those without oars could not. That doesn't seem fair either.

And I heard, 'It's not my fault they don't have oars'. Well, it's not their fault you don't have a boat. :P

Maybe BNT should vote on it at its annual meeting & consider allowing boats for running @ the Open. That would at least put the question of transporting fish to rest, assuming that BNT will disallow transportation of live fish by truck/car.

The SCBBBC could vote on it, too, but my hunch is that the club won't go for it. I agree that it's somewhat arbitrary, but, then again, a lot of tournament rules are arbitrary (e.g., in boat tournaments, no trolling, no fishing with two rods even if licensed to do so, no live bait, etc.). My guess is that most of the guys would say that you have to have a float tube/kickboat to fish, & you need some way to get to the tournament, but you don't need a boat.

as stated in my orginal post this has nothing to do with BNT or SCBBBC. It was just something I was brainstorming on and I was asked why we didnt by a non-member of any of the clubs or even this board. I now know the answers and this thread also brought up some great points. I will post a closure topic shortly. Thanks for all the attention this got and the great posts from everyone.