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MoonDoggie (Guest)Mon Mar-05-01 09:58 AM
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#1559, "Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"


          

Hey brian,

I am a little bummed, as the reason that I had emailed you privately about the tournaments was that I wanted to keep it between a few people and not involve the whole internet.

I have no problem as to releasing fish, as a deckhand in the 80's, I was urging the release of calicos and other fish way before it became the "in" thing to do. I have released dozens of legal lingcod that I caught at San Miguel while dead-heading to try to help the local population. I along with a few other friends released many, many legal bass in the anchorage at certain key spots, and returned many times to fish them successfully in the late 80's and early 90's. I do believe in the merit of C&R fishing.

BUT (here comes the kicker)

I have a problem with the criminalization of keeping legal fish! I know that this is going to piss some people off, but the fact is that I, very occasionally do enjoy shooting a nice calico ( under 6 lbs) I do have some personal standards. I have on several occasions had perfect shots on BIG bass, some upwards of 8 to 10 lbs, that I have not taken. It is a great thrill to successfully stalk a great fish of this size, and not shoot it. Having said this, what I wanted to avoid, was to create a bunch of hoopla about the tournaments, some of which may be unnecessarily negative. Now that this is out here, lets talk about it.

My original idea was to have a 3 fish limit of 3 species, Bass, Halibut and WSB. I want to keep these tournaments as easy and fun as possible. The fact is that if people want to fish in the tourney and keep bass alive, great! Part of the fun of these things is the weigh in and seeing what everybody catches. If I wanted to see a number written on a board, I would read the Week Old News. I do understand that bass may die because of the tournaments that I am promoting. THIS IS A FACT THAT I CAN LIVE WITH - Provided that people will take the fish home and eat it. The fact of the matter is that I do not expect 100's of participants (though it would be great), I would like to see anywhere from 10-30 or 40 kayakers who want to go out and have fun, catch some fish, meet some new friends, and maybe learn some new techniques. I would hope that they would be honest fishermen (isn't that an ozxymoron?) that wouldn't cheat to win a little bit of prize money. Common guys, with 20 participants, at $10, that is $100 dollars for 1st place. I am not going to have lie detector tests for the winners. I hope that you can have enough integrity to not let a dead fish drop to the bottom in the hopes of winning.

Having motorboats running around, picking up fish and weighing them, is a great idea, but at this point, too much for me to think about. Just the liability of having a motorboat, sanctioned by the tourney, I can hear the lawyers smacking their lips already. At this time it will not happen. I want for us to all go out there and have fun, catch a few fish, maybe win a little $ and have a BBQ at the end. Nothing illegal or immoral.

If there were hundreds of participants, then I would definatly consider the merits of a C&R weigh boat or other ideas, but as it stands now, it will be a 3 fish limit of Calico or Sand Bass, 3 White Sea Bass and 5 halibut. 1 point per fish, 1 point per pound. I hope that we can all go out there and enjoy a day of fun competition, good fishing and comeraderie. This is a fishing tournament for not only those on this site, but many other sites, as well as local fishermen.

This is a optional tournament. If you don't want to do it, it is up to you. If you want to concentrate on halibut (where the winners will probably come from) than do that. If you want to come out and keep a couple of calicos, great! I will even help you with some killer recipies if you want. They are a very tasty fish. You will be expected to fish within the laws of the F&G, and the rules of the torunament. No culling fish, if you want to keep them alive, and release them, great! Go for it. I will do anything I can to help you. But I will not criminalize, or shun those who keep a few for personal consumption.

Having said this, our first tournament will take place at Goleta Beach, on Sunday, March 25th, weather permitting. This area holds a lot of fish, a lot of different structure and different fishing zones near the launch point. The final copy of the rules, times and places will follow by tomorrow.

Respectfully,

Marco Farrell AKA MoonDoggie


Hey brian,

I am a little bummed, as the reason that I had emailed you privately about the tournaments was that I wanted to keep it between a few people and not involve the whole internet.

I have no problem as to releasing fish, as a deckhand I was urging the release of calicos and other fish way before it became the "in" thing to do. I have released dozens of legal lingcod that I caught at San Miguel while dead-heading to try to help the local population. I along with a few other friends released many, many legal bass in the anchorage at certain key spots, and returned many times to fish them successfully in the late 80's and early 90's. I do believe in the merit of C&R fishing.

BUT (here comes the kicker)

I have a problem with the criminalization of keeping legal fish! I know that this is going to piss some people off, but the fact is that I, very occasionally do enjoy shooting a nice calico ( under 6 lbs) I do have some personal standards. I have on several occasions had perfect shots on BIG bass, some upwards of 8 to 10 lbs, that I have not taken. It is a great thrill to successfully stalk a great fish of this size, and not shoot it. Having said this, what I wanted to avoid, was to create a bunch of hoopla about the tournaments, some of which may be unnecessarily negative. Now that this is out here, lets talk about it.

My original idea was to have a 3 fish limit of 3 species, Bass, Halibut and WSB. I want to keep these tournaments as easy and fun as possible. The fact is that if people want to fish in the tourney and keep bass alive, great! Part of the fun of these things is the weigh in and seeing what everybody catches. If I wanted to see a number written on a board, I would read the Week Old News. I do understand that bass may die because of the tournaments that I am promoting. THIS IS A FACT THAT I CAN LIVE WITH - Provided that people will take the fish home and eat it. The fact of the matter is that I do not expect 100's of participants (though it would be great), I would like to see anywhere from 10-30 or 40 kayakers who want to go out and have fun, catch some fish, meet some new friends, and maybe learn some new techniques. I would hope that they would be honest fishermen (isn't that an ozxymoron?) that wouldn't cheat to win a little bit of prize money. Common guys, with 20 participants, at $10, that is $100 dollars for 1st place. (big fish %30, 1st - 30%, 2nd - %20, 3rd - 10%) I am not going to have lie detector tests for the winners. I hope that you can have enough integrity to not let a dead fish drop to the bottom in the hopes of winning.

These will be kayakers, not highly specialized speedboats with top of the line electronics for pinpointing individual stones. In reality, it is pretty much a crapshoot as to who will win.

Having motorboats running around, picking up fish and weighing them, is a great idea, but at this point, too much for me to think about. Just the liability of having a motorboat, sanctioned by the tourney, I can hear the lawyers smacking their lips already. At this time it will not happen. I want for us to all go out there and have fun, catch a few fish, maybe win a little $ and have a BBQ at the end. Nothing illegal or immoral.

If there were hundreds of participants, then I would definatly consider the merits of a C&R weigh boat or other ideas, but as it stands now, it will be a 3 fish limit of Calico or Sand Bass, 3 White Sea Bass and 5 halibut. 1 point per fish, 1 point per pound. I hope that we can all go out there and enjoy a day of fun competition, good fishing and comeraderie.

This is a optional tournament. If you don't want to do it, it is up to you. If you want to concentrate on halibut (where the winners will probably come from) than do that. If you want to come out and keep a couple of calicos, great! I will even help you with some killer recipies if you want. They are a very tasty fish. You will be expected to fish within the laws of the F&G, and the rules of the torunament. No culling fish, if you want to keep them alive, and release them, great! Go for it. I will do anything I can to help you. But I will not criminalize, or shun those who keep a few for personal consumption.

Having said this, our first tournament will take place at Goleta Beach, on Sunday 25th, weather permitting. This area holds a lot of fish, a lot of different structure and different fishing zones near the launch point. The final copy of the rules, times and places will follow by tomorrow.


Marco Farrell AKA MoonDoggie


>
> These are just thoughts, I would love to hear your
> opinions, an any
> potential problems that could come up. I don't want
> to put it out to too
> many people to discuss, we could be here for a year
> trying to please everyone.
>



  

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Replies to this topic
RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, jchapluk, Mar 05th 2001, #1
RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, brian, Mar 05th 2001, #2
RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, Moon Doggie, Mar 05th 2001, #3
      RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, Frank (Guest), Mar 05th 2001, #4
      RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, Frank, Mar 05th 2001, #5
           RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, Amish Ed (Guest), Mar 05th 2001, #6
                RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, Frank, Mar 05th 2001, #7
                     RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, Moon Doggie, Mar 06th 2001, #8
                          RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, Moon Doggie, Mar 06th 2001, #9
      RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, brian, Mar 06th 2001, #12
RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, Dan, Mar 06th 2001, #10
RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, Moon Doggie, Mar 06th 2001, #11
RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, Leapin' Bass, Mar 07th 2001, #13
RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, Moon Doggie, Mar 07th 2001, #14
      RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, Leapin' Bass, Mar 07th 2001, #15
RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, Chris, Mar 10th 2001, #16
RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, brian, Mar 11th 2001, #17
      RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, Chris, Mar 13th 2001, #20
RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, fongster (Guest), Mar 12th 2001, #18
RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, brian, Mar 12th 2001, #19
      RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, Leapin' Bass, Mar 14th 2001, #21
           RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, Shakabra (Guest), Mar 14th 2001, #22
                RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, Leapin' Bass, Mar 14th 2001, #23
                     RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass, Shakabra (Guest), Mar 14th 2001, #24
                          revision, Shakabra (Guest), Mar 14th 2001, #25
                               RE: revision, brian, Mar 14th 2001, #26
                               RE: revision, Leapin' Bass, Mar 15th 2001, #27
                                    RE: revision, Shakabra (Guest), Mar 15th 2001, #28
                                         RE: revision, brian, Mar 15th 2001, #29
                                         RE: revision, Leapin' Bass, Mar 18th 2001, #30

jchaplukMon Mar-05-01 12:08 PM
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#1560, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 0


          

March 25.... damn...during my spring break. Oh well I guess I am willing to drive up here. I wish the dorms stayed open. Is there such a thing as a cheap hotel in SB?

Jason

  

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brianMon Mar-05-01 12:55 PM
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#1561, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Marco,
Sorry about posting, but I thought it would help work out some details. I understand that you don't want to go to the trouble to organize a catch and release only tournament for the expected number of anglers that you'll have. However, even if you do get only 20 fishermen, and have a 3 fish limit, that's till 60 fish off a spot if the fishin is AVERAGE. It doesn't take much to catch 3 calico bass in a day. I don't want to say this, but if you're not going to even attempt to keep some bass alive, I don't think I want a part of it. Don't take it the wrong way, it's not about you, or anything like that. "It's not you, it's me" lol. It really would not be that big of a deal to have a catch and release policy. If people want to keep their calico bass, they either don't fish the tournament or deal with the fact that that isn't acceptable that day. I personally think it's the best way to go for the anglers, the tournaments, and the fish. Check your email (sometime, my internet's down right now).
-Brian

  

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Moon DoggieMon Mar-05-01 02:02 PM
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#1562, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 2


          

Brian,

No worries, and I completely understand your position. But my position still stands that if we take 60 bass, it will not impact the longterm population of the fishery. Remember that if these 20 were on a charter to the SM1, that they would most likey take many more fish than three, and then go over the channel to fill out their limit of Rockfish. So, if anything, I am keeping them from being out that day and killing many more fish. (I know that that line of reasoning is flawed and asinine, but no different than those guys wouldn't keep those fish if it wernt for the tourney.)

Think about a cattle boat, day in and day out, about how many fish they take off our reefs, and we can still go out and catch many fish. I am again, not condoning taking of fish you can't eat, but it is well within the limits that the law of the land has prescribed.

I mean, realistically, do you think that a spot like mesa lane, which is pretty small, has a long term impact by the 1/2 day boat fishing there one day??? If this were the case, you would never catch a fish on the one mile, Horseshoe, Cambys, Mohawk or Naples. Calico bass move around quite a bit and the overall impact is negligable, otherwise I would not be promoting it. If this is the way you feel, will you stop fishing the party boats because they kill fish? (you probably will because you just got a killer skiff : )

I think that we need to remember that we are out there, using a resource. I also think that the person that goes to the store and buys a hunk of fish flesh wrapped in styrofoam does a lot more to damage the resource(ocean) than I do, killing a few fish that I do eat. The fish in the store was caught by methods that have bycatch issues, spoilage issues and is probably not very fresh at all.

I would love for there to be an easy answer. I would love to say that, yes, we will have a pick up boat, and that the fish that you wish to be released, will be. But with the liability issues involved, with the posibility of someone dropping a winning fish overboard, oops, sorry bro, there goes your prize money..., it just isn't gonna happen this early in the tourneys. I would like to see someone come up with a good solution to this, but what I don't want is for someone to go to the trouble, expense and time of keeping a fish in a container, weighing it and releasing it, all banged up with all it's slime gone, for it to die of an infection. This defeats all the effort and is even more wrong in my opinion, the end result, 1 dead fish, and you didn't get to eat it. Granted, I hope that that 8 lb lobster did....

Also remember that I hope to bring a bunch of new people into the sport of kayakfishing. Kayakfishing can be challenging enough to someone who is just starting out. Trying to tow around a livewell, or finding a caged bouy.... too much. I think that the value of teaching someone how to properly fillet and use a fish, rather than them wasting a lot of the meat, has more intrinsic value. That instilling within the community that, this is how to fish, how to eat, and only eat what you can, will do more for that guy than not having him turn out to an event because he is intimadated, and having him go out on a 1/2 day where they will have him keep everything from 11 5/6 inch to 10 lbs, a full limit that will help the deckhand pay rent, but partially go to waste.

I remember being on the old Sea Hawk, man what a fun boat to fish, in the mid/late 80's and holding bigger fish that we got in the bow tank for the JP. We then got a scale so we could release the bigger fish, after weighing them. This was way before anyone starting pushing C&R.

My stand is still that the RESPONSIBLE take of calico bass is legal and moral, and alright by me. I believe that 3 fish should adequatly provide for most. I believe that the calico fishery, in our part of the channel is healthy and not under any immediate threat, and that a couple of tournaments a year will not have a long term impact on the fishery.

Now killing big spawning largemouths that you rip from shallow spawning beds is wrong, you are in an enclosed area with a smaller population of fish, less area and structure for them to hide in, many more fishermen with INFINATLY more technology and know-how. In a kayak, on the BIG pond, you would be hard pressed to fish the same rock, without a bouy marking it, and put pressure on it. You are constantly moving around, drifting, kelp grows and dies, things are always moving and changing out there.

I think that you would do much more for your cause of educating people about C&R by showing up and devising a way that is feasable for kayakers and tubers to carry fish in a healthy manner than just not showing up, and convincing others not to either.

My $.02
MoonDoggie
have2fish@yahoo.com

  

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Frank (Guest)Mon Mar-05-01 03:25 PM
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#1563, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 3


          

I my time on the water fishing. I also like the idea of a just for kicks-and-a-good-time tourneyment with following BBQ. Keeping in mind the limitations of the craft we're talking about, i.e. floattubes, kayaks, longboards, and rowboats, keeping fish alive in livewells just isn't feasible for everyone involved. To do it properly, it would be a huge pain in the arse for most of us, costing significantly more than the entry fee!!! Although the idea of a monitor who weighs fish is better, it still doesn't measure up since people won't want to wait to get each fish "officially weighed".

I respect our fishery and know that how we treat it now will affect it greatly in the not so distant future. However, I agree that we should be able to take a reasonable amount of legal sportfish for tablefare. I don't mean fatty calico bass that are of legal drinking age either. I mean normal to good sized bass. I don't care who advises me not to, unless my freezer is packed with fish, I'm keepin any legal halibut/wsb I catch and feelin' really really good about it! Conversely, when I have fish at home already, I love letting fish go. I enjoy myself either way.

C&R has a time and place. In the just for kicks tourneyment we're discussing, it sounds to me like someone who has a problem catching and keeping calicos could try to target halibut or wsb instead. Its only $10 bucks and if you feel strongly about calicos and their slow growth rate, just let them go! Nothin's on the line (pun intended) so no big whup.

I'd just like to go out and have a good time.

  

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FrankMon Mar-05-01 04:50 PM
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#1564, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 4


          

Said another way, I think when trying to force people to see things one way and one way only, everybody loses. Enforcing C&R on legal species is destined to fail from the start. This intuitively makes sense to me. I like the idea allowing people to C&R IF THEY HAVE ADEQUATE MEANS and the desire to, but not requiring it. It lets everyone have fun.

  

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Amish Ed (Guest)Mon Mar-05-01 07:34 PM
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#1565, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 5


          

Chris Moody over at Floattuber.com (Rob knows about floattuber and doesn't mind me mentioning them) makes a good tubing livewell for $10 I think. Basically it is one of those water noodles that you use in a pool, this is cut to make a ring which is ziptied to the inside top of a mesh laundry bag. There is enough of the bag at the top to drawstring close it. Our tournaments usually end up w/ 100% release, and I personally have never had a fish die. And our tournaments are usually 6hrs minimum. He can give you the dimensions, mine is buried in my car waiting for next week. I don't know how it would work for yaks and skiffs, but worth a try, maybe just use a bigger bag.

Amish Ed

  

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FrankMon Mar-05-01 08:47 PM
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#1566, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 6


          

That does seem like a good idea for floattubes Ed. They don't move fast so towing that setup would pose no real problem.

The live bait setup you describe reminds me to ask the question, "Are natural baits allowed in the tourneyment?". The last tourneyment the answer was no. I would have a blast either way and am just curious. Maybe I missed this detail in a previous post somewhere.

(The thought of bait tanks is exciting for me 'cause I'm prolly gettin a kayak fairly soon and am going to set it up with a bait tank, fishfinder, rod holders, and maybe even GPS to re-find once found hard to beat spots on the big pond.)

  

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Moon DoggieTue Mar-06-01 07:25 AM
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#1567, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 7


          

For the first few tournaments, pretty much anything goes. I want people out there, having fun, trying new things. This is my main goal for this first year of events. As they grow in size, we can start to fine tune them and deal with such issues as C&R, live biat, electronics with more detail.

The last tournament, I fished spiderwire and crankbaits, something I had never put much time into. It was a blast!!! I caught a few fish here and there, but kept at it. At about 11:00, I got into a WIDE OPEN halibut bite. In 45 minutes, I put on 16 halibut, with only one being legal. I also got a nice yellowfin croaker, a FAT surfperch and a few short WSB. With a spinning outfit, and that line. MAN those strikes were HARD!

If we see a trend of success, that the one guy with a fish finder is having an unfair advantage, then I will address it then. I know that the tourney run in SD Bay allowed FF, and had a lot of opposition to them, so the will not allow them from here on out.

Personally, I learn a lot from others and how they fish. I learned this early on as a deckhand. 80% of the fish are caught by 10-20% of the guys. If one guy pulls in three bass in a row, find out what he is fishing and copy, copy, copy... If he is waiting the extra 30 seconds at the tank to get the greenback chovies, or that one brownbait, but it is getting bit, do it.

Live bait will be allowed, on the condition that it is caught legally, during the event. Dead bait will also be allowed. this may be bought before the tournament.

The floating livewell that was mantioned in the previous post is a great idea for float tubers. I am not sure how it will drag behind a kayak. This is something I would like to see someone try. You can use a mesh laundry bag with a round or square ring of PVC. Honestly, with the weather the way it has been, I think that there will be few bass caught. I know that I will be looking for a few flatties.

I am working on getting some extra kayaks there for those who don't have them, friends who want to fish, or want to try fishing them.

Other tournaments that I would like to try are a Salmon Tourney, maybe off Pismo or Avila, when they are just off the beach, maybe a freshwater tourney at Casitas?? Anyone know the regs there? Do yaks have to stay in an area, or is it unlimited to where they can go?

Marco out!
Have2fish@yahoo.com

  

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Moon DoggieTue Mar-06-01 08:25 AM
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#1568, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 8


          

I wrote to Dr. Milton Love regarding the subject at hand, and my plans to hold a contest. This was his response, copied with his permission, of course:



Well, calicos on the coast do seem to move around a lot. I would not be worried about cleaning an area out permanently. Also, at present, calico populations seem fairly high. So, taking 60 from one spot, one time, is probably not a big deal. However, if we have entered a cool water cycle, after 25 years of warm water, that may have a negative effect on bass reproduction. If that eventually happens, taking that many fish will have an effect down the road. Right now, though, it is probably okay.

  

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brianTue Mar-06-01 09:26 AM
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#1569, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Marco,
You're right, I don't think a tournament once a month on a different spot every month will have much effect on that spot even if you do take 100 bass off of it. However, I do think that it's sending the wrong message. We obviously have two very different goals for these tournaments. You want to promote the sport and introduce beginners to kayak fishing, while I want to provide tournaments for those who are already into the sport. Because my way would be for those who already know how to catch fish and are already familiar with kayak/float tube fishing, I'd like to make it catch and release. It is much easier for an experienced fishermen who takes his share of fish out of the water every year, to toss 3 of em back a month, than a beginner to toss back those same fish which might be his only three all summer. I realize this. So, basically, the environmental impact will probably be minimal, however, the point of the catch and release policy is to set an example and show that we are doing our part to conserve. Otherwise it's just an organized fish kill. I'd like to go out, catch some fish, and put em back in the end. No harm done. If it comes down to it, we may need to split up and hold separate tournaments. Yours for the beginners/people who don't want to go to the trouble of releasing, and mine for the rest. Another concern of mine is that a catch and kill tournament would put out a bad image. Like I said, it's an organized fish kill. No matter what impact it may or may not have on the environment, it's still an organized fish kill, and that doesn't look good. I hope it doesn't come off like Marco and I are fighting or yelling at eachother (notice, no capslocks, lol), because I really have no animosity toward him at all. Hopefully we can get it worked out. If it comes down to separate tournaments, that's the way it is. If you wanna release bass, fish mine, if you don't, fish Marco's.
-Brian

  

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DanTue Mar-06-01 09:05 AM
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#1570, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 0


          

What if we made the C&R boat an option? This way people could us it if they wanted. Also, if someone did catch a 5+lbr they could release it. What do you think Brian and Marco, is this a good compramise. The tournaments sound fun and I will participate, but I will feel better about participating if this attempt were made towards conservation(I DO understand the bit about the fish being legal, but some people still dont like to keep any calico). You also might get a bigger turnout with the optional C&R boat. Marco you mentioned some legal issues with a boat, what are these?

  

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Moon DoggieTue Mar-06-01 09:18 AM
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#1571, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 10


          

Fishing in a kayak or float tube, you are low to the water and succeptable to being dumped in the water. Having a propeller, even if the motor is off, near some dangling legs, it just is not worth the hassle. Not to mention, what happens if the boat drops your fish before you get it weighed..... I am not gonna deal with those hassels for an impromptu, fun get-together with a little $ sidepot.

If you want to carry around a livewell, or mesh bag, or tie off a container to an area, then bring in your live fish, I will do everything I can to weigh those fish in an expedient manner, at the time of the weigh-in, and aid in the release of the fish.

I am not making a cent on this project, just doing it to get out on the water, meet new people, try new techniques. If you don't want to deal with the C&R issue, fish the other species, or deal with the livewell issue yourself.

Idealy, having all boats equipted with a waterproof digital camera and scale, weigh your fish and let it go right away.... but for $10 bucks, aint gonna happen. Sorry folks. The issue is closed for the first few events. If you can come up with a good method of transporting the fish alive, without damaging it's scales or slime, and want to share it, please do so. If not, than we can deal with this issue after we have had a few events and work out the kinks of running an event like this.


MoonDoggie

  

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Leapin' BassWed Mar-07-01 07:30 AM
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#1572, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I am struggling with the catch-n-kill vs. catch-n-release issue but I am also put off a little by a few other factors.

1) Kayaks vs. Float Tubes - while fishing out of each is great I don't think they should compete against eachother. I believe they are too different and each have separate advantages over the other which shine separately in different conditions.

2) Bait - I don't like the idea of any kind of bait (dead or alive) or chum being used.

3) Multiple species - I'd rather see halibut only, bass only, or WSB only tournaments.

Just my .02. I would love to compete in tournaments but I'd be more drawn to a float tube only single species event.

***********************

You can't catch tomorrow what you kill today - please practice catch and release.

  

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Moon DoggieWed Mar-07-01 09:14 AM
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#1573, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 13


          

LAST EDITED ON Mar-07-01 AT 12:26 PM (PST)

> I would love to compete in tournaments but I'd be more drawn to
>a float tube only single species event.


Three words:

Put one on!

Guys, this is just for fun. You don't have to do it if you don't want to. If you want to fish a tube only, then go through the hassle of putting one on.

If you want to fish in mine, GREAT!

If not, FINE. Not the end of the world. I just want to have a little fun on the water.

I will be putting together some species specific events, but not for a while. Fishing is going to be iffy at best for this one, so all this retoric is probably for not.

MoonDoggie

  

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Leapin' BassWed Mar-07-01 09:24 AM
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#1574, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 14


          

Moondoggie,

Don't get me wrong. I think what you're doing is cool. You wouldn't do a float tube only because you mainly fish from a kayak. I was just commenting and giving my thoughts/views. I do think about starting up float tubing tournaments every now and then. I would love to do a halibut one where all fish count (or at least ones that are over 14 or 15 inchers). I'm not sure how this could work but it would be a lot of fun since it seems like 16 - 19 inches is the average size for the inshore halibut on artificials. It would be nice to have a halibut tournament where there are more than two or three fish that count.

I probably won't make the March 25th tournament only because my kid is due 11 days before that and I don't think I'll be fishing much for a little while.

Pete

***********************

You can't catch tomorrow what you kill today - please practice catch and release.

  

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ChrisSat Mar-10-01 06:10 PM
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#1575, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I kept a flattie one day off Point Fermin in LA. It was on a stringer of sorts that I had. Anyway, a seal figured out I had a fish with me. I heard his wet exhale behind me and quickly pulled the fish up on top pf my tubes apron. The seal circled and cirled, swimming underneath and around me. He followed me all the way to the beach and stayed in ankle high water just staring at me until I walked off with my catch.
I never kept any fish, while tubing in the salt, after that.

I like the idea of this tourney though. What I'd recommend for anyone with the means to do it, is use a kickboat. You can put a livewell on it, completely out of the water where the seals can't get at it.(or smell it) Use a bilge pump to keep the water fresh and aerated. And if the rules allowed, you could cull fish without worrying about their mortality and release them at the end of the event or have a killer BBQ. Pass the vinegar and tartar sauce!! Mmmmm....fresh white sea bass.

I sure wish I could fish your tourney but I live too far away right now. (north of SF)
Tight lines & have fun!

Chris

  

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brianSun Mar-11-01 04:31 PM
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#1576, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

Chris,
Kickboats would be a good idea except for the surf launching part... Especially with that heavy livewell on there. Most of these tournaments will be beach launches through the surf, so stability is the main concern.
-Brian

  

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ChrisTue Mar-13-01 06:53 PM
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#1577, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 17


          

I can see what you're saying. It could be rough with a full livewell.
What you could do is wait to fill the well until you're past the surf line which can be acomplished quickly with oars. I guess it would depend on the size of the swell and frequency of the sets as to whether it would be safe or not.

Have fun.
Chris

  

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fongster (Guest)Mon Mar-12-01 07:00 AM
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#1578, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I would suggest that you guys try and keep your bass alive for this type of tourney but that dead bass be allowed seeing as there are no livewells except a stringer and the ocean itself. You will probably not have that many die. The SD anglers bay tourney allows dead fish so that guys aren't dropping them overboard and that those w/o livewells can fish. Only a very, very small amount of bass were kept to eat or died in that tourney.

Now, a comment on keeping a few fish to eat. That is qite fine but I would say that a 6# fish is way past the size one should keep. I and many others suggest the 1-2# fish. I don't feel any calico 3# and over should be taken, IMHO.

  

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brianMon Mar-12-01 09:19 AM
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#1579, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

I agree that fish over 6lbs. or even 4lbs for that matter should not be kept under any circumstances.
-Brian

  

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Leapin' BassWed Mar-14-01 07:11 AM
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#1580, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 19


          

And there is where my dilemma lies. I also won't kill a calico that is over 3 or 4 lbs. but on the other hand the amount of meat you get off of a fish under 3 or 4 lbs. is not enough for me to justify killing it.

***********************

You can't catch tomorrow what you kill today - please practice catch and release.

  

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Shakabra (Guest)Wed Mar-14-01 07:29 AM
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#1581, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 21


          

What??? I'm not sure how much you eat but a 12-inch calico bass fileted correctly should provide ample meat for a person. Add a little broccali, a little rice, and you've got a wonderful meal. Any deckhand will tell you that the smaller calico's (legal of course) are better eating than the bigger ones anyway...

  

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Leapin' BassWed Mar-14-01 10:18 AM
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#1582, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 22


          

LAST EDITED ON Mar-14-01 AT 01:21 PM (PST)

If I'm going to kill a (any) fish I want it to provide at least enough meat for 3 to 4 people (or meals).

This is just one of the many reasons I will not intentionally kill bass (kelp (calico), sand, largemouth, smallmouth, spotted, etc.)

***********************

You can't catch tomorrow what you kill today - please practice catch and release.

  

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Shakabra (Guest)Wed Mar-14-01 03:07 PM
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#1583, "RE: Tournaments and Releasing Calico Bass"
In response to Reply # 23


          

First off, I want to say that you are completely entitled to your own opinion. But, your logic perplexes me a bit. You say that you wouldn't want to eat a bass under 3-4 pounds because it wouldn't provide enough meat to feed 3-4 people (or feed you for 3-4 meals). So, what you are really saying is that you only target the larger species of fish because you can get "more bang for your buck." I do realize that you have a miniscule impact on the local fisheries but what you are doing is selectively targeting "larger" fish species, whatever they may be. This is not an ecologically sound method of fishing either. Fish size should not be an indicator of whether to eat a fish or not, with size limits applicable of course. From a conservation standpoint, a better philosophy might be to catch and eat fish that happen to reproduce faster than other species.
Another point I want to make is that there is a huge difference between freshwater and saltwater bass. Unlike our native saltwater bass (i.e. calico, sand, spotted), the bass that are caught in local lakes and reservoirs are most often non-native, farm-raised, genetically altered fish. In my opinion, conservation of these freshwater fish is not as critical.

  

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Shakabra (Guest)Wed Mar-14-01 03:23 PM
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#1584, "revision"
In response to Reply # 24


          

Sorry, after reading what I wrote, I wanted to make some changes.
This is what I wrote:

"So, what you are really saying is that you only target the larger species of fish because you can get "more bang for your buck." I do realize that you have a miniscule impact on the local fisheries but what you are doing is selectively targeting "larger" fish species, whatever they may be. This is not an ecologically sound method of fishing either. Fish size should not be an indicator of whether to eat a fish or not, with size limits applicable of course."

This is what I meant to say:

So, what you are really saying is that you only target the larger species of fish (when you want to eat, not for sport) because you can get "more bang for your buck." I do realize that you have a miniscule impact on the local fisheries but what you are doing is selectively targeting "larger" fish species, whatever they may be. This is not an ecologically sound method of fishing either. Average species size should not be an indicator of whether to eat a fish or not, with size limits applicable of course (I'm not saying we should keep large calico bass, I'm referring to "larger" species like yellowtail, white seabass, tuna, etc.)

  

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brianWed Mar-14-01 03:58 PM
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#1585, "RE: revision"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

Let me see if I can straighten this out a little bit. First of all, very few, if any largemouth and smallmouth bass are planted in California. Conservation is VERY important to these species, probably even more so than calico bass. There is a HUGE amount of pressure on largemouth bass, from both tournaments and recreational anglers. I could get into the specifics, but that'll only take up space and stray away from the point at hand. I think what leapin bass is trying to say (I'm not trying to put words into anybody's mouth, so correct me if I'm wrong) is that he only wants to kill a fish if it's worth killing. Killing a 12" calico bass is not going to provide much meat, so he'd opt to kill a larger fish which would be of more benefit to him and his family. HOWEVER he also stated that he doesn't like to kill bass over like 3lbs, so he's stuck with a dillemna. That leaves like the 2lb. class of calico bass for him to eat. I know leapin bass, and trust me he's very conservation minded. I don't think I've ever seen or heard of him killing ANY calico bass, so there's nothin to worry about there.
-Brian

  

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Leapin' BassThu Mar-15-01 12:06 PM
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#1586, "RE: revision"
In response to Reply # 25


          

"what you are doing is selectively targeting "larger" fish species, whatever they may be. This is not an ecologically sound method of fishing either."

I don't feel right killing a bass (kelp, sand, largemouth, smallmouth, etc.) for many different reasons. Their average size is only one of the reasons. Another problem with calicos is that they grow very slowly. Targeting fish that are not only a "larger" species but also grow quickly is much more ecologically sound than killing smaller fish that don't grow very fast. Yes - you get more "bang for your buck" - that's exactly why it is more ecologically sound.

"a better philosophy might be to catch and eat fish that happen to reproduce faster than other species."

Great point - another reason why I won't kill bass.

"Another point I want to make is that there is a huge difference between freshwater and saltwater bass. Unlike our native saltwater bass (i.e. calico, sand, spotted), the bass that are caught in local lakes and reservoirs are most often non-native, farm-raised, genetically altered fish. In my opinion, conservation of these freshwater fish is not as critical."

Please don't take offense to this but where did you get your information? If you're referring to trout you're correct but if you're referring to bass you're way off. Nearly all freshwater bass fisherman will agree conservation of freshwater bass is extremely critical.

***********************

You can't catch tomorrow what you kill today - please practice catch and release.

  

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Shakabra (Guest)Thu Mar-15-01 03:27 PM
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#1587, "RE: revision"
In response to Reply # 27


          

Hey no worries, no offense taken. I enjoy debating these kinds of topics in a friendly manner.

I completely understand that you may have different reasons for not killing saltwater bass. I do realize that calicos are very slow growing and that is an excellent reason to not want to kill them. However, I just didn't think that your reasoning about not wanting to kill calicos only because you couldn't get enough meat off of them was the best reason. I agree that it makes sense to target "larger" species, as you originally insinuated, but I wanted to add that fast growth and reproduction were also very important. The main reason I mentioned this is because not all "larger" species grow and reproduce quickly. Conversely, not all "small" species of fish grow slowly like calicos do. Enough of that...

As far as the freshwater/saltwater bass thing goes... I was merely trying to point out that most local (i.e. SB/Ventura) lakes and reservoirs are man-made (I'm not referring to every freshwater lake in America). Therefore, and tell me if I'm off base here but, any bass caught in these local lakes should be non-native. Somebody had to put them in there originally and I don't think it was a divine act. Sure, there is no question that they reproduce in these lakes but that was not my point. I also understand why tournament and recreational bass anglers would want to practice conservation so they can return to these local lakes year after year and catch fish. But my opinion is that because these local freshwater bass are non-native, it seems more important to conserve and preserve the native calicos and sand bass. That's all...

  

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brianThu Mar-15-01 06:10 PM
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#1588, "RE: revision"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

Shakabara,
Thanks for the friendly attitude. It's great when folks can have different opinions and be nice about it. Most of the time these situations get way out of hand. BTW, welcome to the site.
-Brian

  

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Leapin' BassSun Mar-18-01 06:23 AM
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#1589, "RE: revision"
In response to Reply # 28


          

I also enjoy a good debate - especially when people understand that everyone has their own opinions and don't get offended or defensive. Opinions are never right - some are just more popular.

As far as freshwater bass in California (or the west coast) go you are correct. They were originally stocked fish. My Audobon Field Guide shows that they are only native to the eastern side of North America and were introduced to all other areas of the U.S. But... that was a long time ago and they are rarely stocked now so for all intents and purposes they are "native" fish that should be conserved. I mostly fish for bass in small ponds and streams so conservation of bass for me is even more critical. In some of the streams I fish if you even killed one fish you'd probably be wiping out 10 - 25% of the legal sized fish population of that particular stretch of river.

***********************

You can't catch tomorrow what you kill today - please practice catch and release.

  

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