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Subject: "San Diego - what happened" Previous topic | Next topic
swimbaitMon Jan-24-11 04:12 PM
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#11860, "San Diego - what happened"


  

          

Combing the DFG list the other night I noticed that there are still only a handful of lakes in San Diego approved for stocking trout. Only three of the six are really known for big bass.

Chollas Reservoir
Cuyamaca Reservoir
Doane Pond
Lindo Lake
Morena Lake
Murray Reservoir

Pretty sad considering every major fishing mag in the country was running stories about the giant bass in the San Diego lakes just a few years ago. Dixon, Poway, Jennings, etc. Am I the only one who has noticed that no one from SD is reporting any big fish any more? What happened to those 18lb+ monsters that were getting caught every 2 weeks in spring? No trout have anything to do with it?

And not one peep from any of the SD trophy guys? Not one dude standing up and going hey - this is BS - I'm going to do something about it? Not one major fishing magazine running a single story about the issue? Nothing on Bassfan.com. Not a single tournament organziation getting behind any kind of initiative to get the trout back in the lakes? Not one lure maker going damn - this is ruining the swimbait business and I need to take action?

If I sound a little harsh, I am being a little harsh. All I hear from SD these days is the reports I read about dudes catching 2 pounders on fat ikas and drop shotting. What happened to the dream of the world record? I don't even see the big names fishing team tournaments any more down there. Shoot, they were stocking Otay with trout for a time, that was promising! Otay is the kind of place that could have produced monsters.

Just shaking the tree to see if any apples fall out. San Diego was the epicenter of the chase for the world record and now it's quiet as mouse? Is everyone just content to go to Murray and keep hoping? F.

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: San Diego - what happened, Mattlures, Jan 24th 2011, #1
RE: San Diego - what happened, dragger, Jan 25th 2011, #2
RE: San Diego - what happened, Mattlures, Jan 25th 2011, #3
      RE: San Diego - what happened, dragger, Jan 26th 2011, #4
           RE: San Diego - what happened, Mattlures, Jan 26th 2011, #5
RE: San Diego - what happened, swimbait, Jan 27th 2011, #6
RE: San Diego - what happened, dragger, Jan 27th 2011, #7
RE: San Diego - what happened, newmoonbite, Jan 29th 2011, #8
      RE: San Diego - what happened, swimbait, Jan 30th 2011, #9

MattluresMon Jan-24-11 05:31 PM
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#11861, "RE: San Diego - what happened"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jan-24-11 08:15 PM by Mattlures

  

          

Rob I didnt know the lakes werent being stocked. As far as I know they are being stocked maybe just not by the DFG. All the regular trophy lakes are getting trout and they are of all sizes with most of them being the smaller size. At least thats how it was last year and the other previous years. As far as nobody catching any big fish, Well we have learned to not burn our own bites. I will admit, it doesnt seem like many 18+lbers are being caught but there are still some big fish being caught and still some monsters sighted every once in a while. I cant speak for the rest of the state but I do beleive most of what your "not hearing" is a product of guys learning to keep quiet. I have been guilty of this before so I am also trying to be quiet.

www.mattlures.com

  

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draggerTue Jan-25-11 10:45 PM
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#11862, "RE: San Diego - what happened"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It has changed a lot and for the worse as far as trophy bass fisheries go. I work at Lake Poway and we have completely isolated ourselves from the DFG and we started stocking our own trout from private hatcheries and purchased an Aquaculture Permit so we are not even owned by the State and the DFG.

To get back on topic though, the trout that we stock, average 2-6 pounds, with many in excess of that. That is great for the trout fisherman, but as far as a trophy bass fishery, it is far from anything positive. I loved when they used to stock the candy bar sized DFG fish because it was phenomenal for the fishery and the fishermen. Those trout used to get gobbled up by bass left and right and now, some of these trout are big enough to eat the bass! It is completely flip flopped. We now have more double digit trout than bass caught in a season which is a reflection of the decline of the big bass fishery this lake was once known for.

Lake Poway was once one of the lakes that many people thought a world record could come out of and with how many big fish I had seen in the years during the DFG stocks, I wouldn't doubt it. But now, since we have been stocking from private hatcheries for close to 5 years now with "trophy," trout, the bass population has changed. Fish still hit swimbaits, but there are a lot more 4-6 pound fish than true trophies and I guarantee it is a result of no more bite size trout to eat. There are still huge fish in the lake, but not in the numbers there once was. It takes a lot to support the diets of those big fish and with the trout gone, there isn't much ideal forage that could sustain those fish at their monstrously obese size. Those tiny trout were the backbone of building the next generation of trophy bass and when you take that away, you have an average fishery.

As a side note, many of these trout compete with bass for forage too. They are big and aggressive and routinely chase and eat schools of shad. That wouldn't be a problem if Lake Poway was larger and had a strong population of shad, but it is only a 60 acre lake and most of the shad barely make it to 2" so to have added predators feeding on them, will only further deplete the forage for bass.

It will be interesting to see how this comes to affect other lakes within the next few years. Bass are resilient and are great predators so they will always thrive, but the DFG trout were the key to their unimaginable success in many of the San Diego lakes. More lakes are buying Aquaculture Permits and stocking trophy trout and big bass are just a thing of the past and no longer "trendy," because they don't draw in as large of crowds or income as trout fishing does. I do agree with Matt that more people are getting tight lipped on the good fishing, but it is definitely not the same kind of fishery it once was... :(

  

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MattluresTue Jan-25-11 11:32 PM
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#11863, "RE: San Diego - what happened"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

dragger I had heard rumors of poaching some big bass at Poway at night. I also heard they were kept. I have also seen pics of good 6-10lb bass that were caught legaly and kept from Poway this would have an effect on a lake that small. I completley agree with you on the importance of the small trout. San V was stocking only bigger trout for the last 15 or so years before it closed and that lake never kicked out any more teen fish. Cant you request a little more small trout mixed in with the big ones. I dont know if Jennings has the same permit as you guys but I know they stock small trout. I see 4lbers with trout tails sticking out of their mouths when I go there. I havent been to Poway in a while maybe I will try it soon.

www.mattlures.com

  

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draggerWed Jan-26-11 06:44 AM
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#11864, "RE: San Diego - what happened"
In response to Reply # 3


          

I have heard those same rumors to, but the local authorities have stepped up to better patrol the lake after hours and write citations now.

We do get hit hard in the spawn by many different kinds of anglers and some are less ethical than others. While we don't get a lot of bass actually kept during spawn, it is always the biggest models in the 6-8 pound range predominately. Most people try and eat them and then complain they taste bad or get a skin mount made to put in their office. Total waste of a very important fish, but they see it as a great opportunity to brag about how good of a fisherman they are even though they caught in off of a bed with a Kastmaster. There was a kid who caught a 10 pounder during the spawn from shore on the other side of the lake and put a rope through its gills and dragged it to the dock and took pictures for 5 minutes. Poor bass barely swam off, but who knows if it survived, she was pretty abused.

Fortunately, we are making it MANDATORY catch a release for ALL bass from February to May in an effort to curb the taking of our backbone trophy breeders. There is still a very heavy population of good fish in Lake Poway, but this lake had the potential to crank out a world record and due to the hard work of the bucket brigade and Tail Walker trout, it seems that that is changing. I hope not. I fished Dixon a few times last year and there was always a guy who would catch close to 10 fish a day during the spawn, all over 6 pounds with some being over 10 and he would keep them in his backpack. I told the rangers and they said they would be on it. Never saw them once and I saw him everyday carrying out 50+ pounds of bass a day.

The trout that we stock are never small. Maybe a few one pounders mixed in, but never the palm sized trout that the DFG put in. The average fish is between 2-6 pounds. These fish are smart and fast too, they don't ball up in schools near the bank and sit there like the smaller trout did as bass pick them off one by one. They are always swimming around and really alert. We could request smaller fish mixed in, but then the trout fisherman would be upset. I think we should go back to smaller fish because then the bass grow bigger and the trout are much easier to catch so everybody wins. But it isn't my call to make so while we could get smaller trout, we won't because their is a huge demand for these trophy trout over trophy bass. I spoke to a guy who works at the water treatment plant over at Jennings and he said that they have made the conscientious choice to specifically stock smaller trout for the reasons above. Feed the fisherman and feed the bass. I think that is a great step towards maintaining a trophy fishery and a fun place for people to come fish. All I know is that we need smaller trout in all the lakes!

  

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MattluresWed Jan-26-11 01:52 PM
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#11865, "RE: San Diego - what happened"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

I am glad to hear about the no keeping durring the spawn. That is a great idea. I wish all lakes would do something like that. Actualy I would like to see a slot where bass could be kept from 12in to about 18in and everything over had to be released. I am glad you are working at one of our lakes. Keep chipping away at your boss maybe you can get to order a few more little trout.

www.mattlures.com

  

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swimbaitThu Jan-27-11 04:03 PM
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#11866, "RE: San Diego - what happened"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Thanks for chiming in with the info from Poway. What you described with the larger trout being stocked, and the subsequent decline in largemouth bass size fully 100% validates exactly what I figured was happening.

We've seen this exact scenario in several of the Bay Area Lakes. Big bass just don't do well feeding on 2lb trout. The biggest bass will go after them, but I believe sincerely that even an 18lb bass would rather eat a 7 to 10 inch trout.

Do you know what the rationale is at Poway for not stocking DFG trout? Is it frogs or something else? Does anyone have a copy of the Pre Stocking Assessment Protocol document to review? You know, because I'm sure that stocked trout have certainly ruined some native species' life at Lake Poway, a totally man made lake :(.

  

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draggerThu Jan-27-11 09:55 PM
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#11867, "RE: San Diego - what happened"
In response to Reply # 6


          

The real reason behind stocking these bigger trout is because they draw bigger crowds of people. Plain and simple. Money walks and well you know the rest.... Lake Poway was the first lake in San Diego to start branching out to different private hatcheries and stumbled upon the bigger Tailwalkers after a few other different choices. If you were a trout fisherman, what would you want? A limit that weighs 4 pounds or a limit that commonly weigh over 20 pounds? That was a lot of the driving force behind the decision of switching to these trout.

Its funny though because the fish still respond to the stocking truck like they used to when the smaller trout were stocked even though it only brings big trout nowadays that they can't eat. They hear the beeping of the truck in reverse and stack up near the loading ramp and sit there patiently. When the trout get dumped, they will chase them, but they can't eat them. I saw a dying 12 pound trout on the surface get hit probably 15 times from bass that were all under 4 pounds. They were just fired up on all of the fish activity and new scents. Also when the trout are stocked there is an oil slick of their slime coats that sits in the water and gets the bass all fired up, but they just can't eat these new big fish and just chase them for the most part. Like I mentioned before, these Tailwalker trout are WAY more active and alert than the DFG fish, making them even harder for a big bass to have an interest in. They are incredibly quick and fight very hard and to a big bass are probably too much of a hassle to pursue with minimal rewards.

Poway is not unique in regards to the issues we are facing with "trophy trout." More and more lakes are switching over to private hatcheries and bigger fish and the bass populations are changing right before our eyes. It is sad to see a pathetic, retarded fish such as a stocked trout have more significance in a fishery than trophy bass, but to each his own I guess.

Fortunately for Lake Poway, there are no endangered or threatened frogs in the area so that won't prevent trout stockings; hopefully! The real concern is battling with these pesky Quaggas. Those little mollusks are the spawn of Satan.

  

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newmoonbiteSat Jan-29-11 10:01 PM
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#11868, "RE: San Diego - what happened"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

How about steelhead stocking??

http://fishwithjd.com/2011/01/24/steelhead-planted-in-northern-california-lake/#more-7669

  

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swimbaitSun Jan-30-11 10:01 PM
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#11869, "RE: San Diego - what happened"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

Thanks for the link. Now there is some good thinking. Plant native fish. So simple it hurts. Good for the trout, good for the fishermen, good for the bass, good for the ospreys. Hope more in the DFG follow suit.

  

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